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A few observations/bugs
Hi Rui,
Firstly, thanks very much for all your efforts on Qtractor. I've been using it over the last couple of months and am hugely impressed :-) I've encountered a few issues, so wanted to let you know about these. I'll detail them below, but if you'd prefer me to report them as bugs/enhancements etc on Sourceforge or wherever, please let me know and I'll do so.
I'm running Qtractor 0.5.8 (compiled from tarball on this site) on Open SuSE 12.2 (64 bit), but also encountered the below with an rpm of a previous version (qtractor-0.5.7-4.rncbc.suse122.x86_64), again downloaded from this site. The soft synth-related problems were encountered using DSSI xsynth and Whysynth, but I suspect that other synths may be the same.
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1) SOFT SYNTH GUI PATCH CHANGE NOT DETECTED
Track -> Plugins -> double-click Plugins -> change patch in Plugin's GUI
After changing patches in the above way and closing down the soft synth's window, the "OK" button of the "Track- Qtractor" dialogue box will be greyed out, meaning that you need to close it either with the Cancel button, or the dialogue's top left/top right buttons. Although the patch itself does change correctly, the information in Track/Track's "Bank" and "Program" will not update. I'm not sure what the behaviour should be here, but following a change, should the OK button be active and the "Bank" and "Program" information be updated? (This seems like it should be the case to me, at least).
Just to confirm - changing Track/Track's "Bank" and "Program" directly (i.e. rather than through the soft synth's GUI) is fine - the OK button is enabled and the information is updated.
2) TEMPO MAP/MARKERS DIALOGUE BOX
Entering this menu but making no changes and selecting "Close" will give a "Some settings have been changed." message, which is misleading.
3) DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS NOT PERSISTENT
- Track -> Plugins -> right-click Plugins; then Audio -> enable Dedicated, to create a dedicated output
- Connections/Audio: connect Dedicated outputs to other system inputs. For example, on my set-up, I want to connect playback_1 and playback_2 to headphones; playback_3 and playback_4 to speakers, so I connect:
Dedicated out_1 to playback_1/3
Dedicated out_2 to playback_2/4
- Save the project, to save the above settings
After doing the above and re-loading the project, the playback_3 and playback_4 connections will disappear.
Note 1: Connecting Dedicated outputs to Qtractor internal Bus inputs (e.g. in order to bounce MIDI tracks to audio tracks) does seem to work OK
Note 2: I initially thought that my Qjackctl Patchbay settings were affecting these connections, but the problem occurs even with no Patchbay loaded in Qjackctl
4) BUS PLUG-IN SETTINGS NOT PERSISTENT
- View -> Buses; add an arbitrary plug-in (e.g. Calf Filter DSSI) to somewhere (e.g. Audio Master's "Output Plugins")
- Enable the plug-in and change some arbitrary settings
- Save the project, to save the above settings
After doing the above and re-loading the project, the plug-in's settings will reset to their defaults. (The plug-in itself will remain active).
Please note that when adding plug-ins directly to Tracks (not Buses), they will restore correctly. In my case though, I'd like to add them to buses, in order to share plug-ins across groups of tracks, for when working on a large-scale project. The issue sounds similar to, but not the same as, this:
http://sourceforge.net/p/qtractor/tickets/32/
5) IGNORE MIDI EVENTS?
Is it possible to tell Qtractor to ignore certain incoming MIDI events from an external MIDI controller? I have an issue with my M-Audio Keystation 66es, whereby it sends "random" Volume (controller 7) data periodically, causing the Volume to drop in Qtractor. I have the same problem in Rosegarden, so this isn't a Qtractor issue, but one way I can think of fixing it would be to tell Qtractor to ignore these events. If this is possible to do, please let me know how.
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Sorry for the long post, but if you have any thoughts on the above, I'd be very pleased to hear them. Thanks very much!
re. A few observations/bugs
1) SOFT SYNTH GUI PATCH CHANGE NOT DETECTED
aha. you're changing a plugin tting by accessing it's widget/GUI from the Track properties dialog... i see. and as you don't change any other of the track's properties de facto you're left with the cancel button and when you click it all plugin changes are backed out. i see. ok. that's an issue... or a bug if you like :) in the mean time, as a designated workaround, try to use the mixer widget more often, and freely access all plugins from there. i'm sure you'll get all the best :)--you can file a bug report then.
2) TEMPO MAP/MARKERS DIALOGUE BOX
ouch. that's true! it says you changed something when nothing has changed really. another one yeah. pretty innocuous one, but one nevertheless ;)--another ticket is in order here.
3) DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS NOT PERSISTENT
i'll have to investigate on this one. is it that only the second order (and up) connections on each output get lost? is it deterministic or is it amnesic all the time?
4) BUS PLUG-IN SETTINGS NOT PERSISTENT
you're mixing concepts here. i think. some plugin instruments, quite a few, are multi-timbral in a way that each MIDI channel can address a different instrument program/preset (like channel 1 and 2 for piano, channel 3 for bass, channel 10 for drums, etc.). these are the kind that are eligible to get inserted on a MIDI bus alright. however, in those cases, the current selected program is not, may not, cannot have a meaningful setting whatsoever. a real multi-timbral plugin as to respond to MIDI bank-select/program-change events instead to setup select each channel or track. otherwise, if not multi-timbral-aware it just does the default. i suspect the plugins you're trying are of this later kind. ie. the current selected bank/program has no meaning for MIDI buses, while it's a perfectly legal property for MIDI tracks ;)
5) IGNORE MIDI EVENTS?
nope. qtractor has no MIDI filter capabilities, yet probably . you either have to fix your keyboard controller settings (is it a known firmware glitch? is it damaged? are sure you can't stop that random behavior somehow?) or use a dedicated filter/router application for the task (i can think of qmidiroute, mididings, midish, to name a few).
br.
cheers
Thanks for the lightning-fast
Thanks for the lightning-fast reply :-)
1) SOFT SYNTH GUI PATCH CHANGE NOT DETECTED
I'll try using the Mixer window a bit more, but I tend not to touch it that much, as I only work on one screen (as I think you've said yourself, it's ideal for a second screen). Anyway, this is by no means a fatal issue, but I've reported it here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/qtractor/tickets/48/
2) TEMPO MAP/MARKERS DIALOGUE BOX
OK, have reported here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/qtractor/tickets/49/
3) DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS NOT PERSISTENT
As far as I can see, it's only the second order (and possibly up, though I have no more outputs to use) that causes problems and yes, it happens every single time. It's probably not that relevant, but it happens when re-loading both standard projects and templates. Please let me know if you'd like me to report.
4) BUS PLUG-IN SETTINGS NOT PERSISTENT
Thanks for the clarification. I'll explain what I'm trying to accomplish - perhaps I'm going about this in the wrong way.
Firstly, I'm aware of your stance on "Qtractor is not a DAW, but a sequencer with some DAW-like features", so I'm not sure if the kind of thing I want to do (which is possible in DAWs such as Ardour etc) is possible in/planned for Qtractor, but what I'd like to do is:
- When several tracks are routed through the same bus, have plug-ins on this bus, so that all these tracks share the plug-ins
- Specifically, I'm thinking of things like high/low pass filters, but this could be any plug-in. I'm not thinking about "instruments", but "effects"
- As an example, I'd like to put high/low pass filters on the Master Audio Bus' "Output Plugins", so that the audio file I export is already filtered in these areas (to remove unnecessary very low/high frequencies)
- Adding the filters in the above way can be done, but when the project is re-loaded, the filters' settings return to their defaults (e.g. for Calf Filter, it will return to the default "12dB/oct Lowpass", with default values for Frequency/Resonance/Inertia). This means that you have to re-configure such plug-ins each time you load a project
Is the above kind of approach possible? Or is it a bad idea in the first place?
Ideally, for large projects, I'd like to send several (groups of) tracks to the same bus (e.g. a reverb bus), before they reach the master out, so that they can all share the effect and I don't have to add the effect to each track individually. In Ardour, you can do this with Sends, adjusting the percentage of the track you want to send to the bus. Such features though, are very likely in the realm of the full DAW, rather than the "sequencer with some DAW-like features" and people have raised similar issues in the past:
http://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/558
http://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/251
...so if this kind of behaviour is beyond the planned scope for Qtractor, I'll just use Ardour for complex projects and Qtractor for simpler ones. It would be a shame if this turns out to be the case, as I much prefer working in Qtractor to Ardour (it's cleaner, lighter, more "fun" :-)), but I respect your decision on having a defined scope for the project.
5) IGNORE MIDI EVENTS?
I have no idea what causes this, but have seen other people on the net with the same issue, on Windows and Mac as well as Linux, so it seems to be a hardware thing. I'll try contacting M-Audio, but they don't appear to have resolved things for other people :-( Thanks very much for the info on QMidiRoute etc - I wasn't aware of any of those. Will look into them...
Thanks very much once again for Qtractor and all your work in Linux Audio!
re. A few observations/bugs
re. 4) BUS PLUG-IN SETTINGS NOT PERSISTENT
dang. you're right, i confirm. audio_fx plugins settings are NOT being properly restored when any are inserted on an audio bus (midi buses are ok though). also confirmed that it used to work alright until and including qtractor 0.5.6 and broken since 0.5.7 onwards. yes, svn trunk is also broken--please file this one with top priority. [UPDATE: hopefully fixed on svn trunk rev.3306+ aka. qtractor 0.5.8.12+]
re. send buses, qtractor have these special kind of pseudo-plugins that you may use for external and alternate routings, respectively: "Insert" and "Aux Send", accessible from plugin-list context-menu. check it out.
cheers
re. A few observations/bugs
Thanks once again for the swift action. Very unexpected for an open source project, but very welcome :-) I checked out 0.5.8.12 from svn and this seems to work fine now. I tried a variety of plug-ins on a variety of buses and all settings restored correctly.
And thanks for the information on "Insert" and "Aux Send" - that was exactly what I was looking for :-) I don't think these had any "Send Gain" functionality the last time I looked and, from reading the various discussions, I didn't think any would be added. I'm extremely glad this is there though.
I had a play with "Aux Send" and currently have things set up as per the below. Not sure if it's "correct" (though everyone's needs are different), but Qtractor now does what I want it to do:
MIDI Track > Aux Send > Reverb Bus (used by multiple tracks) > Master In (coming from Reverb Bus' "out" connections) > Master Bounce Track
In addition, I was planning to test "Insert" with JAMin, but encountered a problem:
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On the "Insert - [track name]" window, there are buttons for Sends and Returns. Clicking either of these opens the Connections window, but on doing so, the title bar of the Connections window is greyed out, making its content un-selectable. It seems this window should be given focus here? At this point, both the "Insert" and "Track" windows are still usable and, once these are closed, "Connections" then becomes usable once more.
Note that Insert connections can still be made by:
1) Enabling the insert in the Inserts window
2) Closing the Inserts window
3) Making the actual connection via the Connections window
Doing the above will successfully route to an external source (in my case, JAMin). However, upon re-loading a project with such a connection made, Qtractor will segfault. (In terms of repro rate, I've tried this on two separate projects, both of which crash Qtractor 100% upon opening).
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Should I open a ticket for this? By the way, I was going to attach a .qtr file which causes the crash, but can't find any attach option here. I can always attach this to the ticket though, if one were to be needed.
Sorry again for the long post, but in terms of other business...
3) DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS NOT PERSISTENT
Would you like me to open a ticket for this too, or just leave it with you?
There's one other point I wanted to raise, but I left it out of the original post, as it was already very long. I'll note it below:
6) TEMPO RAMPING
Is it possible to "ramp" up/down between tempos in Qtractor? For reference, I mean the kind of thing you can do in Rosegarden - set start/end tempos, then gradually increase/decrease tempo between them, so that the piece as a whole either speeds up or slows down. At the moment, I'm inserting tempo changes manually every bar or so - this can achieve the same effect, but is rather tedious. FYI, I saw the section on Time Shift/Accelerate in the 0.5.x manual, but this appears to be just for notes within clips, rather than the piece as a whole.
re. A few observations/bugs
re. ["Insert" with JAMin...] re-loading a project with such a connection made, Qtractor will segfault.
let me reproduce/confirm this first, then i'll ask for a ticket for the records ;) [UPDATE: I'm still trying and yet can't repro...]
re. 6) TEMPO RAMPING
this has been often requested before. i'm still procrastinating to give it a second thought. :)
byee
ps. attachments are possible, but only at the forum OP level. and please, use the archive/zip session format (.qtz) which does all the bundling for you. hth.
re. A few observations/bugs
Thanks for the info. Will wait on any pending issues for now then. Is there a "watch thread"/e-mail notification facility on this board? I can't seem to find one.
FYI, I was able to "fix" my Keystation problem using QMidiRoute. Thanks again for letting me know about that :-)
In addition, whilst looking at 0.5.8.13 today, I've noticed one more issue. Please let me know if you consider this a bug (looks that way to me) and, if you need it reporting.
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7) CHANGING SOFT SYNTH PATCH CAUSES DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS TO BE LOST
- Create track and enable dedicated connection for it
- Add soft-synth plug-in to track (e.g. DSSI xsynth), choose an arbitrary patch and close plug-in window
- In Connections, connect track's dedicated output to an arbitrary destination (internal Qtractor bus, external system/playback_out (3 or higher) etc), then close window
- In track's Track window, change Program to another arbitrary patch and click OK to close the window. Message window will report an "Audio connections change"
- In Connections, notice that the track's dedicated output connections, to both internal and external sources, will have dropped. Only system/playback_1 and _2 will remain
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re. A few observations/bugs
7) CHANGING SOFT SYNTH PATCH CAUSES DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS TO BE LOST
it's strange that there's a cause-effect relation on this...
however the dedicated audio connections issue might be already solved on svn trunk rev.3312+ aka. qtractor 0.5.8.14+
hint: also please, make sure whether you really want the auto-connect setting for the dedicated outputs. that instructs that the dedicated outputs shall be always connected to system:playback_1, 2, no matter what.
hth.
cheers
re. A few observations/bugs
Thanks once again for looking into all this :-) I've tested 0.5.8.15 and here's where we stand:
7) CHANGING SOFT SYNTH PATCH CAUSES DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS TO BE LOST
Appears to be fine now, provided that you've saved the project before changing the patch. If you take a completely new project and proceed as per the original bug, the issue will still occur. However, I don't think this is a problem, as if you're going to be doing any non-standard routing, you will have saved the project first.
3) DEDICATED AUDIO CONNECTIONS NOT PERSISTENT
This also looks fixed now.
1) SOFT SYNTH GUI PATCH CHANGE NOT DETECTED
As per comment on the ticket.
INSERTS - CONNECTIONS WINDOW UN-SELECTABLE
I think you're probably still looking into this so haven't made any changes, but just FYI, the Connections tab is still un-selectable after clicking Sends/Returns on the Insert window.
Thanks again!
re. A few observations/bugs
Hi Rui,
Just to let you know on:
1) SOFT SYNTH GUI PATCH CHANGE NOT DETECTED (ticket #48)
I see you've already closed the ticket off, but just to confirm, this is fine for me here too (tested in 0.5.8.17).
re. A few observations/bugs
re. INSERTS - CONNECTIONS WINDOW UN-SELECTABLE
i guess this only happens when you go all the way from track properties form to plugins then inserts and there sends/returns... you see, the first window is a modal dialog and may hinder the later connections one--try doing all the same but starting from the mixer strip. as i think i've suggested you before. check whether you still get an unable connections window ;)
hth.
cheers
re. A few observations/bugs
re. INSERTS - CONNECTIONS WINDOW UN-SELECTABLE
Thanks very much for looking into this one too. Yes, it seems you're right:
- Proceeding as per the original bug will yield a non-selectable Connections window (though I haven't had any segfaults upon re-loading)
- Adding an Insert directly from the mixer strip works with no problems
If you need a ticket for the record at all, please let me know.
various questions
Hi Rui
Thanks for Qtractor (and the other softs)!
- I would be curious to know your opinion about Ardour becoming less and less "free".
- I think that Qtractor should be independent from its environment; I mean it looks very ugly (and not very "professional") in gtk environments like ubuntu. (I know we can change the colors for all the applications but don't want to modify everything...)
- I am surprised that it's up to us to go and find a "click"!
- I wish once a track has been recordered I could simply right-click on it (or a selected region" and select "loop".
- I wish the waveforms were a little more precise/definite as I think they look a little rough.
That's about it for a first impression on Qtractor!
Thanks for your Softs!
re. various questions
I would be curious to know your opinion about Ardour becoming less and less "free".
is it? how less free? it's still free open source isn't it? it's still GPLv2 last time i've checked, so it's free open source software to all (my) senses. where did you get that idea? :)
I think that Qtractor should be independent from its environment; I mean it looks very ugly (and not very "professional") in gtk environments like ubuntu. (I know we can change the colors for all the applications but don't want to modify everything...)
i see. try running it as `
qtractor -style plastique` instead; it cannot do a thing about the colors because it frankly inherits the ones configured for your desktop environment; hwoever if you're willing to change that and noting that will affect ALL Qt4 based applications, not only qtractor, you can setup your own color palette via `qtconfig`.I am surprised that it's up to us to go and find a "click"!
you mean audio metronome samples? yes. if you find it a problem on choosing your own you can have someone else's from this topic: Metronome sounds :)
I wish once a track has been recordered I could simply right-click on it (or a selected region" and select "loop".
you can just simply click once on it--which selects the whole clip, making it current as well--and then hit menu Clip/Loop Set. that's it.
I wish the waveforms were a little more precise/definite as I think they look a little rough.
yes they look like that on deeper zoom levels (horizontal time), but that's quite intentional since ever;) on my call, i'm fine with it as is. making a more prettier and precise option will be just about consuming more cpu (and developer, me) resources and trading precious audio/musical performance for subjective visual eye-candy ;)
cheers
Thanks for your prompt reply
Thanks for your prompt reply Rui!
As for Ardour, now you have to pay to get a binary (or compile it but you don't have the choice anymore). So to me it's not free!
For the metronome I will check your link but having a default sound to me is prerequisite.
And for the visual aspect, I understand that it is not a priority for you, but it is the kind of things that people like and look for!
Many thanks again!
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