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Samplv1 inside Ardour, keep sample ?

9 December, 2018 - 13:08 — Daniele1971

Hello guys, first time here...
Coming from Lmms I was serching for a Fileprocessor alternative. Samplv1 is what I was looking for but there's a big issue: everytime I open a project, I need to reload the sample (sample or preset is the same)! It's a pain. So, am I doing something wrong ? Not very useable in this way..

Thanks,
Daniele.

Forums: 
samplv1
9 December, 2018 - 17:51 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

yes, your probably doing or having something doing wrong in there :)
it sure is not supposed to ask for a sample file every time you open an existing and previously saved Ardour session whatsoever.
ps. which versions of either ardour and samplv1?

10 December, 2018 - 17:39 — Daniele1971

I tried several times with no success..
Opensuse TW, Ardour from multimedia repo and Samplv1 is your package from sourceforge ;)

Thanks.

10 December, 2018 - 18:50 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

just to be on same page, all qstuff is first developed here under openSUSE TW :)
there are no excuses why you can't tell about exact versions: latest public ardour5 is v5.12 (dunno how you got it, there's no package from TW whatever); samplv1 should be v0.9.3--please don't go with anything less.
also make sure you read and comply with these words of advice for Ardour users...--not specifically to your issues (probably not at all) but one never knows ;)

10 December, 2018 - 19:57 — Daniele1971

Sorry this is the list:
samplv1-0.9.3-40.rncbc.suse.x86_64

For Ardour:
Information for package ardour:
-------------------------------
Repository : multimedia:apps
Name : ardour
Version : 5.12.0-2.18
Arch : x86_64
Vendor : obs://build.opensuse.org/multimedia
Installed Size : 43.6 MiB
Installed : Yes
Status : up-to-date
Source package : ardour-5.12.0-2.18.src
Summary : Multichannel Digital Audio Workstation

And yes, I've fixed all lv2 files for samplv1, synthv1, etc, etc..

Side question: Is it normal that I need to fill the subject field when I reply to your post ?
Thanks.

10 December, 2018 - 22:19 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

ouch!

as a matter of fact, i now realize that the last release version for samplv1.lv2 is broken in the exact regard to what you report: the sample file is not being save as LV2 plugin state whatsoever :/

you were right all this time, sorry for the pain I might have inflicted to you.

I'll investigate this further and come with a fix ASAP.

meanwhile the previous released version (v0.9.2) seems to be working right. Maybe you (and everybody else) will be better off falling back to it.

cheers && sorry for all the inconvenience

ps. the nasty bug is now fixed on git head master (samplv1 >= 0.9.3.11git.f88875). thanks again.

11 December, 2018 - 00:00 — Daniele1971

0.9.2 ardour crashes :(
Downgraded to 0.9.2, Ardour crashes on load.
Upgrade to 0.9.3.. still crashes on load !
So opened a session without samplev1, fine then I was able to open a session with samplev1.
Removed the plugin, save & close.
Downgrade again to 0.9.2 but now as soon I add samplev1 to a track, Ardour crashes :(
So, 0.9.2 (your rpm) does not work here.
Damned..

11 December, 2018 - 06:19 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

please remember to read thewords of advice for Ardour users...;
while it's been said for "drumkv1" you ought to apply it to "samplv1" as same.

cheers

ps. re. side question: yes, you have to fill the subject line; if left blank it's filled with comment body first line, or something like that.

13 December, 2018 - 10:57 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

samplv1 v0.9.4 has been released and it includes the fix to this issue.

cheers && thanks

16 December, 2018 - 13:35 — Daniele1971

Installed, it's ok, Thanks for the quick fix ! Keep it up !

2 June, 2019 - 22:50 — Daniele1971

Hello, here again...
Ardour project with several samplv1 tracks. I reopened the project few time without issue but today, after a zypper dup and reboot, all samples are lost :(
Ardour and samplv1 are still at same version (not affected by upgrade) ardour-5.12, samplv1-0.9.4.
Is there a way to recover ? Where is the sample name/file saved ?

Thanks,
Daniele.

3 June, 2019 - 07:18 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

i am terribly sorry to hear that!

please do not hit save in ardour before the issue is possibly solved... try to use "save as..." instead (if ardour supports it).

sample file references are stored as part of LV2 plugins parameters state, so it's kind of not-human-readable...
you can however look into audour's session directory or folder for respective symlinks: each sample file is referred to by a symlink to each and actual file location in your file-system, stored outside the ardour session directory; also check if the sample files are still there or moved away somehow;

i'm afraid that's how far i can help you at this time.
hope you find your way through it all

cheers

26 April, 2024 - 07:03 — Daniele1971

HI, I reopened a project made with Ardour 2 years ago with few instance of samplv1. All samples gone :( For sure they are in the same place.

26 April, 2024 - 13:05 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

hi,

my deeply apologies for that happening again, but may I ask what really changed since last time you reported the issue, 6 years ago?

here doing tests with ardour8.6 and samplv1 0.9.90+ and nothing of the sort you tell comes around.

am I the only one?

2 May, 2024 - 16:32 — Daniele1971

Well.. It doesn't happens all the time. Probably ther's no logic in this but it seems that it happens reopening old project.

2 June, 2024 - 18:39 — Matthieu (not verified)

Hello, I did not use ardour for a long time, and since then it has updated to Ardour 8 (exactly: Ardour 8.6.0~ds "Kite Stories" (rev 8.6.0~ds-1) Intel 64-bit on linux), with drumkv1 version 0.9.90. In all my old previous Ardour projects, drumkv1 has lost all the samples. I also setup a new quick simple project in Ardour 8, with only drumkv1, and same thing after saving and reloading Ardour and the session, all samples are lost. What can I do to help debug the issue? Best, Matthieu

3 June, 2024 - 07:56 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

hi, that's very unfortunate as it simply fails to reproduce here, at least on a local built ardour8.6 (the very same to yours but previous versions as well).

here some questions, from the top of my head:

  1. what is your base system linux distro?

  2. were both ardour8 and drumkv1-lv2 built and installed from source or are pre-built packages for your specific system (1.)?

  3. where do the original sample files reside in the file-system? are you by any chance picking them up from beneath some existing ardour session folder? if yes to the later, please don't, ever! that is probably the root cause of your mistakes.

  4. do you see any suspicious output/error messages on the console (or log), specially if you launch ardour8 from the command line terminal ?

  5. do any others ardour users have or noticed the same problem, on the ardour.org forum?

regards.

UPDATE: Been investigating on this particular issue on several systems and versions, and hold and behold, I think the dang culprit has been found! it is not drumkv1, or samplv1 whatsoever, nor is ardour to blame, at least directly; I now believe the issue is most probably due to libLILV >= v0.24.22 :( here on openSUSE TW. it's still running on v0.24.20 and, as said, everything works as it should! then tried on UbuntuStudio 24.04, which has liblilv-0 = 0.24.22 and ardour failed miserably exactly as you both report: all samples vanishing on drumkv1.lv2 and probably (samplv1.lv2 as bad); on UbuntuStudio 22.04 with liblilv-0 = 0.24.16 iirc, all is well too.

4 June, 2024 - 18:54 — matthieu (not verified)

Hi RNC,

1/ base system linux distro: debian (13, Trixie, aka 'testing')
2/ both ardour8 and drumkv1-lv2 come from debian packages. Exact package versions are:
ardour 1:8.6.0+ds-1
drumkv1-lv2 0.9.90-1
3/ ardour sessions are stored in a specific directory under my home, sample filles are all stored in a different directory under my home
4/ unfortunately, I do not see anything special on ardour stdout. I don't see anything related to drumkv1 or the loading of samples (or failure to) from drumkv1
5/ i don't know for other users, i will try to search ardour's forums

I retried with a simple test case (with ardour started from terminal to be able to check stdout/stderr):
- start ardour on a new empty sessions
- add one track with drumkv1
- add a kick, clap, hh, with a simple one bar loop and a few effects from drumkv1
- store the session
- quit ardour
- restart ardour on this session
- all 3 samples lost from drumkv1

Then I go in the session directory to have a look, i see the plugins subdirectory where I assume plugins state are stored. here is the content of that directory:

$ ls -R plugins/
plugins/:
291

plugins/291:
state1  state2  state3  state4

plugins/291/state1:
 manifest.ttl   state.ttl  'VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav'

plugins/291/state2:
 manifest.ttl   state.ttl  'VEH1 Closed Hihat - 15.wav'  'VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav'  'VEH1 Snares & Claps - 022.wav'

plugins/291/state3:
 manifest.ttl   state.ttl  'VEH1 Closed Hihat - 07.wav'  'VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav'  'VEH1 Snares & Claps - 022.wav'

plugins/291/state4:
 manifest.ttl   state.ttl  'VEH1 Closed Hihat - 07.wav'  'VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav'  'VEH1 Snares & Claps - 022.wav'

All sound files are actually relative symlinks to other symlinks in the externals directory of the session, which in turn are relative symlinks to the actual files. Eg.:

$ ls -al plugins/291/state4/
total 24
drwxr--r-- 2 mimbert mimbert  4096 Jun  4 20:22  .
drwxr--r-- 6 mimbert mimbert  4096 Jun  4 20:23  ..
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mimbert mimbert   479 Jun  4 20:22  manifest.ttl
-rw-rw-r-- 1 mimbert mimbert 10481 Jun  4 20:22  state.ttl
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mimbert mimbert    45 Jun  4 20:22 'VEH1 Closed Hihat - 07.wav' -> '../../../externals/VEH1 Closed Hihat - 07.wav'
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mimbert mimbert    43 Jun  4 20:22 'VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav' -> '../../../externals/VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav'
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mimbert mimbert    48 Jun  4 20:22 'VEH1 Snares & Claps - 022.wav' -> '../../../externals/VEH1 Snares & Claps - 022.wav'
$ ls -al externals/
total 24
drwxr-xr-x 2 mimbert mimbert 4096 Jun  4 20:20  .
drwxr-xr-x 9 mimbert mimbert 4096 Jun  4 20:23  ..
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mimbert mimbert  128 Jun  4 20:20 'VEH1 Closed Hihat - 07.wav' -> '../../../../musicprod/sounds/Vengeance/Vengeance Essential House Vol.1/VEH1 Cymbals/VEH1 Closed Hihat/VEH1 Closed Hihat - 07.wav'
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mimbert mimbert  128 Jun  4 20:14 'VEH1 Closed Hihat - 15.wav' -> '../../../../musicprod/sounds/Vengeance/Vengeance Essential House Vol.1/VEH1 Cymbals/VEH1 Closed Hihat/VEH1 Closed Hihat - 15.wav'
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mimbert mimbert  122 Jun  4 20:09 'VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav' -> '../../../../musicprod/sounds/Vengeance/Vengeance Essential House Vol.1/VEH1 Kicks/VEH1 Hard Kicks/VEH1 Hard Kick - 001.wav'
lrwxrwxrwx 1 mimbert mimbert  122 Jun  4 20:14 'VEH1 Snares & Claps - 022.wav' -> '../../../../musicprod/sounds/Vengeance/Vengeance Essential House Vol.1/VEH1 Snares und Claps/VEH1 Snares & Claps - 022.wav'

I don't know if this information can be useful?
Cheers,
Matthieu

4 June, 2024 - 19:56 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

hi, have you read the UPDATE on my last post?

please check which liblilv-0-0 package version have you installed! if above or equal to v0.24.22 you, and everyone else, are in deep trouble!

if possible, try to revert to v0.24.20 or even earlier, and then check whether it behaves better or else: you'll certainly need to reset all your samples again as ardour sessions saved meanwhile are borked! :(

please try and tell your findings--I've done my homework and it's all likely a lilv >= 0.24.22 severe bug, to have it said gently :S

thanks

ps. lest to tell, fortunately qtractor does not suffer from this nasty issue, no matter the liblilv revision ;)

4 June, 2024 - 20:47 — matthieu (not verified)

ha yes i missed your update

My version of liblilv-0-0 is indeed 0.24.24-2

I just downgraded to 0.24.14-1 (the following command made the job: apt install liblilv-0-0/stable liblilv-dev/stable)

And bingo, restarting Ardour and loading my last test session, the samples are back.

Congratulations for the quick debug, now I guess we must either fill a bug for liblilv. Or maybe the issue is a subtle bad interaction between recent versions of libliv and ardour (since qtractor is not affected)

Cheers,
Matthieu

5 June, 2024 - 04:44 — matthieu (not verified)

I submitted this issue to ardour: https://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=9717

5 June, 2024 - 07:12 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

thanks

however I do believe the bug is introduced in liblilv >= 0.24.22, via libzix >= 0.4.0.

I'll investigate whether the latest git heads have fixed the issue at hand.

meanwhile, the problem seems to be in LV2_State_Map_Path::absolute_path() feature, which ardour delegates to lilv/zix's buggy implementation, while qtractor provides its own and thus not affected by it.

UPDATE: confirmed! indeed a bug in liblilv (git head also has it); a merge request has been already posted with the fix:

cheers

UPDATE2: - MR#4 is now merged upstream: expect libLILV >= 0.24.26 to be a sane one ;)

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