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Audio tracks to a BUS
Hi, another question, I know it's a common issue but maybe I'm doing something wrong...
I've got some tracks which I want to send to a BUS (e.g, several drum elements tracks: track for kick, track for snare...). Then I want to add the drums BUS to master, into the main mix.
So I define a drums BUS and I route every drum track to it.
Then, when I route the BUS to the master, I can't hear anything anymore.
Therefore I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.
Someone could ask me: why are you routing the drums BUS to the master output? Because when I want to bounce all tracks (export tracks) I can choose just one output way, which is tipically the master bus and I'd like to have everything in my bounce: single tracks, buses, etc. So I think that everything should be routed to the main master output.
thank you!
re. Audio tracks to a BUS
hi manu,
first, you may well select more than one audio output bus, while on the export dialog; you can select Master *and* Drums altogether and they will mix-down all the way through the exported file;
second, due to hard-coded internal processing flow (that is, you can't do anything about that, kinda feature, not-a-bug, sorry;)), making an aux-send insert on an audio output bus will only work *iif* the source bus is listed *before* the target one--so that it won't ever work if the target is "Master Out" which coincidentally happens to be the very first and top default one.
hth.
cheers
bus to bus
Hi Rui
Thanks a lot. Everything is clear.
Actually, after writing this post I discovered the multiple-bus-selection when exporting tracks. The only problem is that there is not a db sum meter of all buses.. So the risk is to have a clipping bounce. So the solution could be using a peculiar meter plugin, routing all buses to it (Think about a complex mix with several buses: drum group, guitars and voices over dubbing, etc) . Or maybe, according to the buses workflow, I should create my buses and then at last "my own master bus", routing all previous buses to it, and choosing it as my main output bus
> db sum meter of all buses
Hi manu,
I have the same need and so ended up using JAMin to "collect" the various buses I use (similar to your "peculiar meter plugin" idea), then route them back into Qtractor. It's something of a fudge but it does work. Please see this HowTo for details.
Nice
Hi, I'll surely check the How-To . I'm using JAMin quite often and I tried it in several ways, including a routing-back into Qtractor, but your idea seems interesting. Do you switch on the JAMin "global bypass" until it's mastering time?
Re: Nice
JAMin can be a bit resource-heavy so I mostly work within Qtractor, leaving myself lots of headroom, until around mastering. At that point, I launch JAMin, enable the inserts (I have a Qtractor template and QJackCtl Patchbay set up with the connections) and use it for final adjustments and exporting.
No idea if this is the "best" (or even a good) way of doing things, but it seems to work.
Again on this topic :)
Hi everyone, forgive me for coming back again on this topic. I'm asking for a work-around to solve this situation:
I'd need to route 3 guitar tracks into one BUS (or something like that) For example, I need to apply to all guitar tracks a compressor and a reverb. Instead of replicating the effects on all 3 tracks, I want to send all tracks to these effects, then send the output of this "bus" to the main mix. As Rui already replied me, using a bus the thing won't work, since the destination bus is at a "lower" position than the Master bus, and I can't move the master bus. Any ideas, please?
Thanks a lot
manu
re. Audio tracks to a BUS
hi,
you have two basic options, at least, both of them relying on a separate audio output bus where you do insert all the fx plugins that you want (reverb, compressors, etc.) and that, of course, you should add or include on the export mix-down selection anyway:
1. have all the 3 guitar tracks assigned to that output to that bus; all fx in that target bus will apply to all tracks outputs as if it were the default master as usual (but it doesn't get any of the 3 guitars sound whatsoever);
2. have an aux-send inserted on each track and directed to that output bus; the alternate bus will become the wet sinal while the former (master) will go as the dry one;
hth.
cheers
Thanks, but..
maybe I should have explained better the whole work-flow...
I already tried the 2 suggested ways, and it's after trying I decided to write again on the topic :)
I'll explain better. Using an alternate bus, which however doesn't come back into the master bus, is the thing I'd like to avoid. I'll try to explain why:
- if I export all buses to obtain the "bounce", as we already assumed, could lead sometimes to audio clipping, since it's not a "real" bounce
- so I decided to play all on Qtractor and record on Audacity (which is perfect to me, as long as I use just a master bus)
- if I add other buses, and I tell Audacity to record from "jack" source, it captures *only* the sound coming from the master bus
this is the behaviour which brought me to raise my question :)
Re: Thanks, but..
This may be a possible workaround:
install jack-mixer, launch it, create one input channel per bus, connect them, watch for clipping on the master meter; once you got your levels right, select jack_mixer as the recording input in Audacity and record.
why not
I'll try ;)
...by the way:
...what's wrong with the old idea you had mentioned, of ignoring the Master bus altogether, route all the tracks and submixes to your last bus and bounce that one only?
You can do any bus treatment and metering there, and bounce at full speed instead of real time recording in Audacity.
JACK of all buses, Master of none :)
what's wrong with the old
what's wrong with the old idea you had mentioned, of ignoring the Master bus altogether, route all the tracks and submixes to your last bus and bounce that one only?
Hi copyc4t
That's right, but this way would be the same as mixing-down all buses (thru exporting function). Of course, it could bring the advantage of exporting just one bus, and if on that bus I see no clipping, in mix-down too there won-t be any problem. I'll consider this option.
On the contrary, concerning my initial topic, I think this way wouldn't work, since Audacity takes the main Master output as source for recording (or maybe, I didn't understand how to change this behaviour).
Thanks
Manu
re. what's wrong with the old...
On the contrary, concerning my initial topic, I think this way wouldn't work, since Audacity takes the main Master output as source for recording (or maybe, I didn't understand how to change this behaviour).
maybe you can just connect the additional output bus with some JACK connections manager like qjackctl or even from qtractor's own side ?
audacity seems to take one stereo pair of channels as default, but you may connect any additional output ports to the audacity input ports manually, anytime and before starting recording...
cheers
ill try! :)
ill try! :)
Re: what's wrong with the old
Ciao manu,
well, the point is that your original idea doesn't need Audacity at all and it's all inside Qtractor, so it should simplify the workflow; especially if you save a multi-bus template project for your future uses.
But if you prefer recording in Audacity anyway, Rui's suggestion works perfectly, and here's how to see Audacity as a device in Qtractor connection manager:
press Pause and Record in Audacity, a new device named PortAudio appears in Qtractor's input ports; manually connect to it any buses you want to send, disconnect "system" and any other unwanted sources, release the pause and start playback in Qtractor.
re. Audio tracks to a BUS
hi all
always remember that you can take *both* buses outputs (master and the alternate one) and thus the result will be *added* (ie. mixed-down);
the resulting mixed signal may well go over +0dBfs at some point so that if you're exporting (or recording from both outputs via jack) to a *non-floating-point* format you will get a damaged audio sample file due to severe clipping eg. over-the-scale integer samples will "wrap-around" and will become negative and vice-versa, in a way that maybe well beyond repair.
so please: a. make it sure the mix never goes above +0dBfs having a wise but lower levels on each of the output bus gain faders; or/and b. select on floating-point sample file format for export and recording so that you may correct the mix later, anytime anyway.
hth.
cheers
floating point format :)
Could you please suggest me which audio formats are "floating point" ? thanks
re. floating point format :)
yes
1. File-type: "WAV Microsoft", sample format: "Float 32-bit" (lossless);
2. File-type: "Ogg Vorbis", sample format: N/A (lossy).
cheers
Hi! I'm bringing back this
Hi! I'm bringing back this thread from the dead. Within it, there is a concern with not having an overall master bus, of which can be used for watching for any clipping. Since we have multiple buses in Qtractor with their own meters, I found that jmeter and meterbridge are very useful during the mastering process. (Yes, Rui, while you are the father of Qtractor and you don't believe it is a true DAW, I choose to believe otherwise! It's only missing this mixdown meter and the dreadful request for processing audio clips as reversed!) :) Anyhow, you can route playback to each of these meters to watch for clipping in the way I've shown in the attached screenshot. In my specific example, I've routed Qtractor to a meter when mixing and VLC to two meters when mastering. It's been incredibly helpful!
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