Hi.. Just returned to Qtractor after a long spell with Ardour.. Suspect my memory is at fault, but I cant seem to get the audio to work in Qtractor properly.
I create an audio (guitar) track, but the only inputs and outputs available are Master. When I play (guitar) I can only hear it from Master, the guitar track I created seems to do nothing. I did get an output from the guitar track earlier (dont ask me how) but it was on top of the Master output and again, I could not get the audio to just route through the guitar track.
In case that was not too clear, I am trying to;
guitar -> usb soundcard -> Qtractor (guitar (audio) track) -> Master output
I cant seem to find 2 tutorials on youtube that do it the same way, and none give me what I want.. Am I trying to achieve the wrong thing or maybe just have Qtractor configured wrong?
Aha..! I had the settings…
Aha..! I had the settings wrong in 'Buses'.. Switched off 'Monitor (pass through)' and 'Auto connect' and it is all working as I wanted..!
If there is any sort of tutorial about routing for Qtractor, I would very much appreciate being steered towards it, clearly a major piece of understanding I need for this DAW..
re. tutorial about routing...
hi,
there's always the User Manual & How To's...
cheers
Tutorials
In addition to the official documentation, I will try to explain it briefly, in case it is helpful. It is valid for Audio (MIDI is more flexible):
1_Routing the application (recording/playback):
To establish the input and output connections of Qtractor, Buses are used and they are managed from Connections.
2_Internal routing (mixing):
For internal connections of Qtractor from track to bus, or between buses, "Auxiliary Sends" are used.
3_External routing of tracks and buses (mixing):
To connect tracks or buses with external applications, "Inserts" are used.
_ Summarizing:
If the purpose is to route the application itself, buses are always used. If the purpose is to mix internal signals, Auxiliary Sends are always used. If the purpose is to use external signals in the mix, inserts are always used.
Exiting can create conflicts or simply not work.
You should not:
- Directly connect the output of a bus to the input of a bus.
- Directly interconnect buses and inserts
Directly connect the output of an Insert to the input of an Insert may be useful.
However, there have been reports of cases where it does not work. If flow permits, Auxiliary Sends are recommended.
_ To better understand how the bus concepts work in Qtractor, I provide you with this tutorial:
How To Manage audio workflows with "Group Buses", "Auxiliary Buses" and "Master Buses"
https://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/2654
P.S.
To monitor tracks, activate auto-monitoring by right-clicking on any track.
This will automatically monitor the selected track.
This is a better option than activating bus monitoring.
Cannot confirm
You should not:
- Directly connect the output of a bus to the input of a bus.
- Directly connect the output of an Insert to the input of an Insert.
When became this a problem? With Pipewire?
With jack it is fine to connect connect the output of a bus to the input of a bus, the same with inserts. You get one buffer size of latency. This can be exactly what you want, see
Equal Latency for Tracks and Buses
zero-copy
Because of the "zero-copy" loop problem, an intermediary application is necessary.
I'm on PipeWire.
Between Inserts, it seems to work for me. Not between inserts and buses.
Between buses it only works for me if the output is the "master default" and with anomalies (it doesn't preview the input VU meter).
However, here https://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/2658
@windowsrefund said that the connections between inserts stopped working for him. And Rui, once again (I've read it dozens of times, some by writing directly to me, because it's something that I think should work the same as it does in midi) said that he totally discouraged internal connections using inserts.
That's the reason why I indicate that it can cause problems and should not be done... Of course I don't prohibit anything.
But if someone asks for information, I've considered offering the least conflictive.
Anyway, I'll correct it. It's true that it can be useful if it doesn't cause conflicts.
P.S.
Fixed
It's been awhile and all I…
It's been awhile and all I know is I can (happily) send the output of a bus to a audio insert. It's very reliable and it allows me to make use of the bus'
volumeandpanfaders which is really nice.So I control relative volumes and panning at the track level (because this can be automated easily) and globally on the bus that track is outputting its audio to (because this is more difficult to control via automation so I have no interest).
It's really quite a bit to cover but in general, the approach Carl took and documented in that original YouTube video works like a charm.
:O
It's true it works!!!
It's great, as you say, that brings back the functionality of the faders in the buses. And once it's back, what we all discussed recently about implementing faders in plugins is now resolved. It's no longer necessary.
It's a shame that it doesn't work the other way around from "insert" > "input bus" to export mixes. Although I already have a trick for that: Sends to a bus dedicated to monitoring connected to the "speakers" input of the system and record the PipeWire monitor output.
As I explained to @fasteddy13, it gives a coherent explanation for someone who is just starting out or is taking up Qtractor again after a long time (there have been changes such as the functioning of AuxSends). And that coherence is based on: Each tool serves a purpose. That avoids disappointment and lack of understanding of what's happening.
If you can't think that you're doing something wrong, or that Qtractor simply isn't functional. And nothing could be further from the truth.
Although the ideal would be that all the connections could be made. I think that's how it should be. But as long as that is not the case...
I have the intuition that there must be a solution.
There must be a way to avoid the problem without having to rewrite everything from scratch.
re. You should not: Directly…
while I always said 'it is not advisable' instead of a straight 'do not', G3N-es is still right.
let me (man)explain:)
the first, [do not] Directly connect the output of a bus to the input of a bus, is still an issue: it might work on some situations or not at all on any; for instance, it used to work on pipewire pre-1.0.0 but doesn't anymore; maybe it works on some profiles, not in others, whatever; the advice has been there for ages, please don't ignore it! thanks
the second, [do not] Directly connect the output of an Insert to the input of an Insert, again a sound advice, actually depends on the internal processing order which is something you (the user) have no control whatsoever, only ballpark guesswork if you're lucky enough;
so I'd sanction G3N-es in both accounts (although I'd keep my 'not advisable' instead of just 'don't' :))
cheers
Strange
This shatters my entire understanding (that I thought I had) of Qtractor and buses. But since there is a new kid in town (Pipewire) I have to be aware that this behaviour is a feature of the combination of Qtractor and the audio server (jackd or Pipewire).
As a jack user "Track -> Bus -> Bus -> Master Bus" is as 'natural' for me as "Track -> Bus -> Master Bus".
Now I learned that this isn't a given fact for another combination, say Qtractor and Pipewire.
So if I end up some day with a system that forces me to use Pipewire for Firefox & Co. I hope there is a way to configure it to output to a running jackd as the main audio system (as it's possible with Pulseaudio and jack sink). I don't feel like using a bad emulation of jack as long as I can use the original.
EDIT:
Maybe I am a bit too harsh since Pipewire's emulation breaks some stuff but tries to avoid additional latencies that I get when I connect a Qtractor bus' output with another bus's input. Using a modular setup, e.g. with non-mixer-xt without additional latencies as in https://sourceforge.net/p/qtractor/wiki/How%20To%20-%209%20Distributing%20Plugins%27%20Load%20to%20multiple%20CPU%20Cores/ might be cool.
re. Using a modular setup
If you use a intermediary application, all problems disappear. Problems only arise with direct connections.
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