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Stepping by Notes in the MIDI Editor

5 December, 2024 - 08:46 — Thomas Henry

Hello,

I tend to use the MIDI editor extensively, adding and editing notes one at a time. Something I grew accustomed to in old sequencer software from two decades ago is the ability to step through a pattern a single note at a time, just for confirmation while making changes.

I know that Qtractor can step through a pattern by snap units (Beat, Beat/2, etc.), but is it possible to step along by the notes themselves, whatever their duration?

Just to be clear, suppose a pattern consists of a half note, followed by a quarter note and lastly an eighth note, and that the current snap unit (quantization) is set to Beat/2. Then stepping along by snap units through these three notes would require six mouse clicks or hotkey presses to reach the end.

On the other hand, if stepping by note, then only two clicks or hotkey presses are need to traverse the three-note passage. And of course, with a longer sequence, the rewards are even greater. Stepping through a sequence by note (regardless of its duration) seems pretty natural musically speaking.

Obviously, stepping by note versus stepping by snap unit would be a perfect fit for hotkey definitions. For example, using the arrow keys on the keyboard:

Left = one note earlier
Right = one note later
Alt Left = one snap unit earlier
Alt Right = one snap unit later

I suggest Alt, since this would be analogous to what goes on in Inkscape and other Linux software: the arrow keys generally move in large increments, but with Alt move more finely.

As you can tell from this and my earlier questions, when in the MIDI editor I find it most efficient to stick with the keyboard and try to avoid constantly going back and forth from the mouse to the keyboard. In other words, the customizable hotkey ability is truly a powerful feature in Qtractor.

I'm still a novice at Qtractor, so perhaps I've missed this ability in my explorations thus far. Is it currently possible?

Thanks,

Thomas

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5 December, 2024 - 09:59 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

hi,

is this about moving the play-head note by note? if yes, then there's nothing of the kind, not even by snap-to-beat steps anyway, sorry--maybe missing some obscure feature, but where did you get that impression?

byee

5 December, 2024 - 10:59 — Thomas Henry

Hello,

I got that impression by using the Transport/Step/Backward and Transport/Step/Forward commands. I then assigned these to hotkeys B and F for testing purposes.

In the MIDI editor they advance and retreat the playhead by snap-to increments...at least that's what I'm seeing. But I'm just an old geezer newcomer and probably don't understand the software well enough or know how to describe things. Sorry.

Thomas

5 December, 2024 - 12:01 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

oh yeah, you're absolutely correct!

that shows that (some) users know my creation a lot better than myself--what a shame :)

sorry for the altercation
cheers

6 December, 2024 - 15:10 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

good news: in qtractor >= 1.4.0.22git.864713

enjoy!

7 December, 2024 - 05:42 — Thomas Henry

I am indeed enjoying it, Rui! Thanks for adding this feature in. I think being able to move by quantize units OR by note offers some real flexibility. And both fit very neatly with hotkey shortcut options. It makes the MIDI editor exceedingly slick for rapidly and precisely getting around.

For best use when editing a passage, it would be particularly nice if each time the user steps to the next note (whether backward or forward), that note is automatically selected, making it ready for instantaneous movement up or down on the piano roll, or for that matter any other editing.

I noticed that the Up and Down arrow keys are already capable of moving a selected note by pitch, though this option doesn't seem to appear in any of the menus or in the hotkey definition window. This might be worth mentioning in the documentation somewhere...a hidden Easter egg, as it were.

So, if automatic selection were possible, the workflow might appear like this:

  1. Step along the notes, however desired, using the Left and Right arrow keys. Each time, the note is highlighted and selected.

  2. Then move that selected note by pitch, however desired, using the Up and Down arrow keys (which is already in Qtractor).

This could really be efficient when hammering out a passage: only the four arrow keys are required, with no recourse to the mouse or any menus.

What do you think?

In any event, thanks again for implementing the step-by-note feature. I've already become quite accustomed to it!

Thomas

7 December, 2024 - 12:02 — G3N-es

I don't know if it will be implemented or not, but I enjoy thinking about how the features should work.

In the end it turns out that yes, you intend to edit midi only with the keyboard :O.
Personally I think it's crazy... For example, if there are chords, several notes would be selected, even if you only want to select one. That is inevitable with the keyboard, not so with the mouse.
However, I recognize that there are times when the keyboard is more precise.

The [Ctrl] key is the standard for selection/desection. It already works like that now with the mouse, the keyboard should not be different.

Now, [Ctrl] and arrows already have functions assigned in Qtractor.
So to move the transport (either by notes, or by beats) the user should choose diferent keys than the arrows.
---

I want to add something that I have also noticed and is related to all this. The edit/insert/sped functionality is meaningless.
Step recording (activating Record Clip) is fully functional with step (and I assume note-based, though I haven't tested this) head shifting.
In any case, I suppose that ignoring edit/insert/sped and allowing the user who wants to do so to disable the shortcut is enough.

And since we're at it, I think it would be clearer if Record_Clip was called Over_Record_Clip in both menus and Tooltips.

Record
Over Record

File attachments: 
Image icon clipRecord.png
Image icon transportRecord.png
7 December, 2024 - 22:06 — Thomas Henry

I had already considered the polyphony issue, but didn't want to muddy my proposal further. But since you brought it up, here's what I was thinking.

Suppose on beat one is a single B note, and on beat two is a chord: C-E-G.

Then when stepping by note (which Rui has already kindly implemented), the B is selected. Stepping again lands on the C. Stepping once more goes to E, and again to the G. In other words, stepping on a chord simply runs through the notes from low to high (or high to low would work as well).

I have no idea if this is do-able, not knowing exactly how MIDI stores the notes of a chord. But suppose it's not, it's still not a big deal, since one could always revert to the mouse at that point to select the desired note of the chord. The stepping function gets the user to the right instant of time, and then the mouse chooses the desired note if it's not the one landed upon. Of course, if the passage consists only of solo notes (which is perhaps the most common situation for this type of editing/entry), then it's not even an issue at all. Just keep stepping along, note to note!

As for the keys, I like the idea of Up, Down, Left and Right covering the entire mechanism, but of course that's not important here, since the hotkey assignments can be personalized anyway as desired.

The important thing is this: for the step-by-note operation, to be most useful the stepped-to note should be automatically selected and highlighted.

Rui's new implementation is already greatly useful. But making the note selected would polish the operation completely. And then the user can customize the hotkey assignments as desired, or even choose to ignore everything and continue using the mouse.

Thomas

8 December, 2024 - 04:21 — G3N-es

I think that the new feature you proposed, "Step by notes", improves step recording. However, the more I think about it, including a selection capability in it only complicates things in many ways. This is my personal opinion, and I could be wrong.

So I'm leaving this topic.

8 December, 2024 - 11:05 — rncbc
rncbc's picture

now also selecting the target note(s), plural if same on-set time:
in qtractor >= 1.4.0.25git.e2c2fa
please test && tell, specially if it clashes with step recording...
enjoy!

9 December, 2024 - 02:14 — Thomas Henry

You're a wizard, Rui! It works great. Now I can easily edit musical passages quickly and accurately with just the four arrow keys. I find this so much more efficient than a hybrid approach with the mouse. And besides, thinking in terms of successive notes rather than when they occur in quantize-units is eminently logical.

Thanks so much,

Thomas

9 December, 2024 - 08:50 — G3N-es

I leave my feedback here.

I've been trying it out. And yes, indeed, Thommas you are right again.

Combining the step tools (record, beat, and note) makes editing smoother and more accurate, especially for writing rhythmic patterns.

I don't give up on the mouse to select/deselect, as that's what works best for me. I still don't find the automatic selection of the Sped Note mode useful. However, it doesn't interfere. I thought it would feel confusing, but since this type of selection is only tied to sped by notes, it hasn't. If others find it useful, I welcome it.

In my case I used the numeric keypad for the shortcuts. Beats: <4 | 6> Notes: <1 | 3>

To my surprise, the workflow doesn't require a learning curve, it becomes fluid after a few seconds.

Thanks to Thommas for suggesting it, and especially to Rui for making it possible.

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